Minutes of the Meeting

The objectives of the roundtable were:

• To basically create an awareness amongst doctors on the health impact of pesticides and
• To get their opinion on how does CSE now move ahead and ask the government on what needs to be done in the area of pesticide regulation and standards.

The meeting started with a presentation by Pranay Lal, coordinator of Health Unit, who highlighted the health impacts of pesticides and the state of regulations and standards in India. He presented findings of pesticides in use in India and that which were known carcinogens, potential groundwater contaminants and endocrine disruptors, suing the EPA-TOXNET and IRIS database.

Dr P S Chauhan, from the Environmental Mutagen Society, Mumbai, appreciated the efforts of CSE in this direction. He said that organizations like CSE are doing dynamic work and are bringing awareness, which would have an impact on the society. Dr Chauhan threw light on the subjects like epidemiology and toxicology, which according to him were not considered as serious subject in our country unlike in the western countries. He added that regulations in the use of pesticides should be made more stringent; giving proper education about pesticides and its use and extension and close monitoring was required. He also said that market based approaches to deter overuse and abuse of pesticides.

Prof. T S Kathpal from Haryana Agricultural University, Hissar appreciated the efforts of CSE for bringing in public the data and telling the people that to which level the food, seeds and environment was contaminated and where there was a need to take precautions. He said that it has been estimated that approximately 50% to 80% of our income goes to food so the people of this country have a right to expect quality food free from toxins. He laid stress on the education awakening of the user as well as the consumer. Dr Katpal said that there is a need to change the attitude of farmers, educate them to use proper amount of pesticides as recommended. It is necessary to bring awareness, ensure sale of pesticides in safe hands. The new pesticides that are developed should be eco-friendly and non-chemical methods should be explored. He concluded by saying that even food is poison if taken in overdose and it is the quantity of food and also of the pesticide that would determine its safety.

Dr S C Joshi, professor, environmental sciences division, Indian Agriculture Research Institute (IARI), New Delhi said that in our country or anywhere in the world, the costliest luxury is the environment and when we see that 30% people are below the poverty line how can we afford such a luxury. He said that DDT and BHC were very well known to scientists for their toxic properties. The question he raised was about the use of BHC in India despite its ban in USA and other countries of the world. The reason was that these chemicals were cheaper and farmers could easily afford them and use them in their farms. He said that the dilemma about public health concerns and economic concerns must be weighed with precaution and not emotion.

Dr Dinesh Pendharkar from the cancer department of Batra Hospital, Delhi, congratulated CSE for holding a discussion on this subject. He said that the first step needed is to set standards, that are acceptable to all stakeholders. According to him public health is paramount. In reply to a question whether he believed that pesticides were carcinogenic or not, he replied that they were beyond a threshold limit.

Dr Subash Arya (Department of Pediatrics, Ganga Ram Hospital) said that children suffer the most as they are exposed to pollution hazards from food, ground as well as from the air, which adversely affects their health. He said that the following issues needed to be discussed. First issue is the norms. Dr Arya was of the view that till our own norms are established we should take the norms that are established by the European market. He said that these norms could be changed in due course of time, as our norms will take time to develop. Secondly he said that he was not in agreement with economic aspect of it since the government was also concerned with the economy, but the fact was that the economy would be healthy if there is a healthy society. He said that if in a consumer item there is pesticides people will not buy our food and therefore we should follow what is scientifically, medically, hygienically correct. He congratulated CSE for its efforts but said that although CSE makes efforts to educate people regarding problems such contamination in ground and bottled water CSE does not provide answer as to which water is safe to drink, whether water collected through rainwater harvesting could be used. He suggested that CSE should provide answers to such questions and also provide this information to other NGOs to spread more awareness.

Dr Harit Chaturvedi, oncologist from Apollo Hospital was in favour of having norms and these norms should be regularly checked with different sources. Research institutions should play a key role.

Dr A K Dixit, principal scientist, pesticide residues, IARI said that pesticides have provided immense help to mankind and for our well-being and therefore it was not the pesticides but the system which was the culprit. He said that there is no reason for finding any residues in foodstuff if the pesticides were used according to the given regulations. He mentioned many pesticides that were banned for agriculture but were still being used in agriculture and it would be difficult to prevent the use of such pesticides. According to him if the pesticides were used in a judicious way there will be no such problems as all the problems are because of the over use of the pesticides. He gave foremost importance to the education of the public and the farmers and to the stringency of regularity. Dr Dixit was of the opinion that we should have a very systematic approach to tackle pesticides and not blindly follow the norms of the foreign countries, as our food habits are different. He said that till date no farmer or trader is prosecuted for misusing pesticides. He said regulator must take stock of key producers, which will help eliminate spurious pesticides manufactured or imported illegally.

Dr Suresh Walia from the division of agricultural chemicals, IARI, said that pesticides are toxics and an alternative to it should be found. He said that IARI has been researching and promoting models for Integrated Pest Management (IPM).

Dr M C Mishra, professor of Surgery AIIMS, raised the problems in human beings especially breast cancer in women. He said that none of the pesticides have been conclusively proven to be carcinogenic as on date. He said that before arriving to any conclusions we need an objective long- term study on this. On the issue of increase incidences of lymphoma Dr. Mishra said that such cases are sighted in those workers who work in pesticides factories, or are in direct contact with it for a long term. Commenting on the issue of norms he said that it is not easy to develop our own norms as a lot of long term studies and funds are required for this. He said there is no harm in accepting the norms followed by foreign countries as they are fixed after long researches and since those countries apply these norms and it does no harm to them in any way so they would be safe for India also and therefore awareness in this direction was required.

Dr Shelly Batra, Gynecologist from Batra hospital, talked only about the medical aspect of the pesticides. She said that the medical science has proved that chronic pesticide intake affects adversely every part of the body. These effects are of two types; one is chronic fatigue syndrome and the overall tendency to cancer. These effects of cancer is seen in mice and rats but have not been documented in humans as yet. The specific affects are seen in respiratory system, seizures, paralysis, behavior problems etc. These have been linked to organochloride compounds. She said that the problem of measuring the level of pesticides is not discussed and which is very important matter as one sample show different results in different labs because no single standard is followed.

Alexander von Hilderbrand, Environmental Health advisor, World Health Organization (WHO) mainly stressed on the need to agree to a standard for labs for measurement of pesticides and in case of lack of any such standard should follow the standard of WHO. Alex said that its we who have to decide what kind of life we want to give to our children, by using pesticides today, we are actually poisoning their tomorrows.

Dr Amita Mahajan, pediatric oncologist from Apollo Hospital said that there is lot of speculation on the role of pesticides and insecticides as a cause of cancer. There is lot of study and ongoing work in this direction throughout the world but still no conclusive evidence is there. She said that there is rise in cases of cancer and brain tumor in children but due to lack of data no conclusion can be made. She was also of the view that indiscriminate use of pesticides leads to resistance and toxicity and it was important to follow the guidelines and impart education to all concerned on the use of pesticides.

Dr Vinita Jain, private practicing pediatrician commented that more and more cases of new developmental disorders were being noticed now. Lot of research has been done on mice and other animals and in fact adverse effects of environmental toxins have been noticed in children.

The representative from Hindustan Insecticide Limited (HIL), Rama Moorthy, was of the view that DDT was totally safe. HIL had been producing DDT for 50-55 years and had employee strength of 1500. However, no one was suffering from cancer. DDT on the contrary had saved many lives. He was of the opinion that standards have to be stipulated and that we should not blindly follow EEU norms. Since India is a tropical country, our standards would vary from those set abroad.

In response to a question whether any alternative is there or developed for phasing out pesticides, Dr V P Sharma, former director, Malaria Research Centre (MRC), suggested two technologies. One was phasing out of insecticides and the other using the mosquito nets. He said that pesticides should be used where essential and in a selective manner, for example in times of natural disasters, epidemics etc. For a replacement to DDT, he said that DDT should be banned, as it is no longer effective. He said that though the government had been spraying DDT to control malaria, he had yet to see a drop in the malaria cases in the country. The truth is that with the spraying of DDT, malaria has gone up, as there are now living carriers of the disease present everywhere. Hence, there has to be now a rational approach present for the application of insecticides, which unfortunately is what is lacking in the country. It is most unfortunate that non-technical people manage most of the usage and Dr Sharma was of the opinion that unless we correct the system, nothing is going to happen.

In reply to a question raised as to why we have pesticides residues in our food in contrast to foreign countries where it is used but still not found, Dr B S Parmar from IARI said that in the foreign countries the pesticides were used properly. He said that we have to follow international norms, which have been developed after very specific conditions. He said that not a single chemical is developed in our country and we are using all the chemicals, norms and technologies of foreign countries so we should not blame ourselves. He said that there is a proper way of using all things and until we use them in a proper prescribed manner and when chemicals are used in a prescribed manner they are not harmful

Dr M A Ansari, officer incharge, MRC, said that personal protection is another alternative to pesticides. Heavy dosage of even antibiotics is harmful so pesticides use should be regulated.

Dr Rajv Garg from the Indian Association of Occupational Health appealed to all NGOs to come on a common platform and said without them no change can take place.

Dr Anil Bansal, president, Delhi Medical Association, and Dr Vijay Malhotra, state secretary, DMA, expressed the desire of DMA to be a part of health issues that CSE takes up, and assured CSE of active participation of DMA in forthcoming health programmes.

A debate ensued on norms and how they should be set. Most participants believed that epidemiological evidence is not strong enough to warrant changing standards and norm. But Dr P S Chauhan said there is scattered research in India, and the Environment Mutagen Society has been presenting India-specific evidence. He re-iterated that there are no epidemiological studies in India to incriminate a single pesticide or any chemical. Dr. Arya believed that norms for adults cannot be implemented for vulnerable population like children. On the whole participants felt that despite no conclusive evidence on health, standard setting exercise must be made rigorous. IARI participants believed that there has been very little thrust in educating farmers on pesticide use. Their experience with IPM has been encouraging but it needs a national policy impetus to promote these two objectives. They believed that pesticides that are redundant in the west are still used in India because they are cheaper. Dr. Harit Chaturvedi remarked if health authorities found evidence two decades ago, then surely there is a silent epidemic occurring in India. Pranay Lal presented figures on the rising numbers of cancer hospitals in India as an indicator to support Dr. Chaturvedi’s point. Dr. Rama Moorthy of HIL believed that had it not been for DDT and other pesticides malaria would have overrun the country and other diseases like plague and dengue too would have increased manifold. Dr. VP Sharma cautioned that the use of DDT and other pesticides was now obsolete as almost the entire country was resistant to them. He believed that new pesticides that need to be rotated in use over a region could be an answer. Also in focal epidemic areas, bioenvironmental measures must be incorporated. Dr. Rama Moorthy said that no one in HIL’s history had suffered from cancer and quoted the famous case of Kenneth Mellanby, a DDT advocate, who consumed one gram of DDT during his public lectures, and how it did not affect him. Dr Sharma retorted by saying that agencies like HIL have never made its data available to public. Dr Joshi also said that we have no data available with us and we need to undertake scientific studies and to do a follow up on the earlier studies carried out by ICMR so that we have the latest information available.